[uschearak]

whatever you choose, please please please post your results here. I would love to see your dyno sheet.

 

[Sti_Guy10]

Then this really doesnt make sense. If they are running 124 traps with a 3274lb car, their whp would need to be around 480hp lol. it just doesnt seem right. Call me crazy:lol:

I guess we can agree to disagree.

Agreeing to disagree is what makes he world go round :tup:

This! It is where my sore thumb is at the moment. I do not launch my car all that often so it is hard for me to practice it. Plus I have had issues of my tq blowing through my clutch going into 2nd and 3rd.

Just for reference on how bad it was - I think I ran mine on sport mode with traction control on (long story but got shut down when next in line for 1o minutes so I turned the car off and then we restarted quickly and I just turned on and went cuz I is drag dumb) and I ran a 13.1 at 113 with a 60' at like 2.3 or something retarded like that.

We only got 3 runs in that night too cuz we got rained out so that was my only "decent" run down the track. We are trying to go back soon but rain is forecasted

youll find its easier to practice 60fts on the street in an empty parking lot. A lot less pressure to perform without everyone waiting and watching. You dont have to be at the track. Finding the right RPMS is very important too. for a vf turbo I found 5800-6000rpms to be quite nice. Id start around 6000 and start working up the rpms til it doesnt bog on that 1.5xtr. you might need a new clutch after learning. pending on how quick you pick it up.

If it was a RWD car then yes but its AWD so they are probably in the 450-460 range is what I would guess.

It dynoed 440s on e85 if I recall correctly on 24psi? I think? im too lazy to go look.

 

[BRaskin82]

Does anyone with the 1.5xtr on a Pump gas tune have any real world trap speed numbers for me.. and the same question for the 2.5xtr and 3.0xtr. I'm thinking from this debate that these would be the real #s to focus on instead of the Dyno, since they would give a true sense of where the car would/shoud/could be

 

[uschearak]

You are way too hung up on numbers. Efi isnt that great of tuners in my honest opinion. Ever think maybe EFI has an very low reading dyno? Because others have made over 400whp on 93 on BOTH turbos. I find that over half the tuners available for subarus are garbage, cobb included. Read the threads before you continue to bash topspeed. Because so far everything youre stating about them is your OPINION.

"Efi isnt that great of tuners in my honest opinion."

No facts. Just because a tune is more aggressive then someone elses putting down lower numbers DOES NOT mean its unsafe.

agressive tunes are inherently more "unsafe" as they are pushing closer and closer to the "octane wall."

Most people do not run aggressive tunes on their subarus. Just because others wish to, and get better results doesnt mean its unsafe. On my 07 sti I ran low 11s (which is freaking slow in my opinion) on the STOCK block from 1500 miles on the car til I sold it at 120k. It was tuned highly aggressive. The guy that bought it is still running it that way and has around 170k on it. I find the best recipes for success are not copying everyone else or their trends. Half of the info spewed around for subarus is utter BS. I mod my cars the way I feel is propper in my experience with others cars, and as a whole has netted me much better success then copying others stupid mods. I pick out what I find is quality and suits my goals.

Im well aware of what shops can do and cant do as far as fudging numbers. Ive been drag racing for over 22yrs with well over 10,000+ passes. you arent telling me new things :lol:

Im sure there are unicorn blocks out there that can handle an aggressive tune for thousands of miles.

I think its awesome you have so much experience in drag :rofl:

 

[uschearak]

I just trapped at a full weight STi on a 1.5 XTR on e85 at 113 with a SHITTY start and run (my first time ever out to a drag strip) and I would say my tune is on the conservative side (Reliable DD). I would say my trap speeds could easily be in the 115-125 range similar to that of TSM build discussed earlier if I hit a good run (been having some clutch issues too).

i honestly dont think (opinion) that you will get above 118mph with a perfect run. I would love it if you did though. Can you post results as well?

 

[Sti_Guy10]

agressive tunes are inherently more "unsafe" as they are pushing closer and closer to the "octane wall."



Im sure there are unicorn blocks out there that can handle an aggressive tune for thousands of miles.

I think its awesome you have so much experience in drag :rofl:

Unsafe is subject to opinion. That im sure you wont disagree with.

I honestly find its tuner and mod related. Those are the dots ive connected.

Why is that awesome?

 

[uschearak]

Unsafe is subject to opinion. That im sure you wont disagree with.

I honestly find its tuner and mod related. Those are the dots ive connected.

Why is that awesome?

fair enough...


i was making a silly "dad" joke to your experience in (wearing) "drag"

 

[Sti_Guy10]

fair enough...


i was making a silly "dad" joke to your experience in (wearing) "drag"

:lol:
had a feeling, but I didnt want to assume.

 

[BJJMark95]

Yeah apparently they can find 15% more power than anyone else. :lol:

Well lets see here - seeing as the difference in read out between a mustang and dynojet dyno has be consistently stated to be about 12-18% I would say that answers your question right there.

My Mustang run (that was full out about a year ago) was 385/395 (same dyno as you will use). Just back in January I ran 353/330ish on the same dyno - BUT was in sport mode and only hit 19 psi of boost. On my prior run I hit 24. So that was with 5 psi of boost still left on the table. I was first to go on the dyno day so it was a simple error that we didn't catch. No big deal.

My Dynojet run (with IATs FAR to high 160+ deg F so there was still more there due to poor air flow) was 412/472.

My Dynodynamics run was 395/385 in Houston.

And my car was tuned in Ohio on a Dynodynamics and put down 380 on E and 335 on pump.

My car has a conservative tune as well as I went for strong, reliable power for a DD. Also I have had a few parts changed out since these runs so they may be slightly larger now as well.

Which is right and wrong then if dyno numbers are either RIGHT or WRONG? Please compare all of them so easily with out knowing the weather conditions, elevations, air flow in dyno bay, the tank of E85 I had, tire conditions, dyno conditions, etc.?

NO one is inflating numbers - does TSM dyno put down on the top end of the spectrum? Yes I would say it does its a dyno jet. Lots of tuners like dyno jets because they are easy to work with. Compare the base numbers though - A stock STi on TSM dyno puts down like 255-260 whp... on the mustang we both are using... its about 225. Its all relative. That doesn't mean either of them or wrong - its all about conditions. Plus our environment is different than theirs too.



All I am saying is that dyno numbers are a very ignorant way to compare set ups unless the details are given behind them. Unless you have the two cars waiting to go back to back on the same dyno on the same day - there is no point in trying to compare them. We can give them ranges sure but thats about it.

Can these turbos produce the same power? Given two different dynos and two different set ups and the fact that the turbos are not all that different (49 lbs vs 55 lbs) I could see that give how each one is tuned. It would depend on the VARIABLES.

I do not know what is hard to comprehend about that - all this "Inflated numbers" and "this shop or that shop sucks" based off of a dyno number is out there.

I would not think twice about taking my car to TSM and let them build it if I was in that area. They are awesome and I have spoken directly with them about their research on the Dom 1.5 XTR multiple times. They know what they are doing.

But alas - enough about that. Dyno arguments are stupid because its like arguing how two different kites fly on two different days in two different parts of the world with out knowing how the wind was.


As for the trap speed - you may be right - but I'll find out as soon as I can! But I suppose 118 would fall in my "guestimation" range. On the dyno jet I ran on - we did a quarter mile pull too and the trap speed was 132 I think? Thats obviously on a dyno with crappy air flow so not really real world test but I would think that somewhere in the 115-125 range would be possible with great conditions and a solid run (which I most certainly doubt the combo will occur with me behind the wheel hahahahahah)

 

[8cd03gro]

The 1.5 is the max I would go stock location. Anything bigger and it's silly to not go rotated.

I would encourage you to look into the real costs of going rotated. You can get a GT3076R for $300 less than a dom 1.5, get STi-lin's rotated adapter or have one custom made, have your downpipe hacked in the middle and modified for rotated, a few feet of custom IC piping or less if you stick with top mount, then you're good to go. You'll end up spending probably $500-600 more than stock location if you do it right and you'll get way more out of it.

As a reference, my car made peak torque 400rpm later than a dom 1.5 with a front mount, but made 60awtq and nearly 70awhp more. Same dyno, same tuner. A proper rotated 30r setup will spool damn near a 1.5 and make waayyyy more power. Plus it's way easier to work on and you have a lot more headroom. If I get bored I can send my turbo out to FP and get an HTA upgrade for $700, make another 70hp. If you get tired of a 1.5 you need a whole new turbo.

 

[Sti_Guy10]

Another option is the Killer Bee Spoolinator kits look great for anyone not wanting larger then a gtx3582r. Its a stock location but is different then traditional stock location turbos. Its a little cheaper then rotated for those that would rather keep the stock position but wants something that works better then other stock location. If I was interested in only a gtx3582r id have gone with it.

 

[uschearak]

Well lets see here - seeing as the difference in read out between a mustang and dynojet dyno has be consistently stated to be about 12-18% I would say that answers your question right there.

My Mustang run (that was full out about a year ago) was 385/395 (same dyno as you will use). Just back in January I ran 353/330ish on the same dyno - BUT was in sport mode and only hit 19 psi of boost. On my prior run I hit 24. So that was with 5 psi of boost still left on the table. I was first to go on the dyno day so it was a simple error that we didn't catch. No big deal.

My Dynojet run (with IATs FAR to high 160+ deg F so there was still more there due to poor air flow) was 412/472.

My Dynodynamics run was 395/385 in Houston.

And my car was tuned in Ohio on a Dynodynamics and put down 380 on E and 335 on pump.

My car has a conservative tune as well as I went for strong, reliable power for a DD. Also I have had a few parts changed out since these runs so they may be slightly larger now as well.

Which is right and wrong then if dyno numbers are either RIGHT or WRONG? Please compare all of them so easily with out knowing the weather conditions, elevations, air flow in dyno bay, the tank of E85 I had, tire conditions, dyno conditions, etc.?

NO one is inflating numbers - does TSM dyno put down on the top end of the spectrum? Yes I would say it does its a dyno jet. Lots of tuners like dyno jets because they are easy to work with. Compare the base numbers though - A stock STi on TSM dyno puts down like 255-260 whp... on the mustang we both are using... its about 225. Its all relative. That doesn't mean either of them or wrong - its all about conditions. Plus our environment is different than theirs too.



All I am saying is that dyno numbers are a very ignorant way to compare set ups unless the details are given behind them. Unless you have the two cars waiting to go back to back on the same dyno on the same day - there is no point in trying to compare them. We can give them ranges sure but thats about it.

Can these turbos produce the same power? Given two different dynos and two different set ups and the fact that the turbos are not all that different (49 lbs vs 55 lbs) I could see that give how each one is tuned. It would depend on the VARIABLES.

I do not know what is hard to comprehend about that - all this "Inflated numbers" and "this shop or that shop sucks" based off of a dyno number is out there.

I would not think twice about taking my car to TSM and let them build it if I was in that area. They are awesome and I have spoken directly with them about their research on the Dom 1.5 XTR multiple times. They know what they are doing.

But alas - enough about that. Dyno arguments are stupid because its like arguing how two different kites fly on two different days in two different parts of the world with out knowing how the wind was.


As for the trap speed - you may be right - but I'll find out as soon as I can! But I suppose 118 would fall in my "guestimation" range. On the dyno jet I ran on - we did a quarter mile pull too and the trap speed was 132 I think? Thats obviously on a dyno with crappy air flow so not really real world test but I would think that somewhere in the 115-125 range would be possible with great conditions and a solid run (which I most certainly doubt the combo will occur with me behind the wheel hahahahahah)

See I agree with 99% of your post, I just need to get off my soap box about dyno numbers. I'm just very spoild with a straight forward shop, and wish the rest were the same way:lol:.

When/where are you going to run again? Would love to see you hit low 11's:tup:

 

[uschearak]

The 1.5 is the max I would go stock location. Anything bigger and it's silly to not go rotated.

I would encourage you to look into the real costs of going rotated. You can get a GT3076R for $300 less than a dom 1.5, get STi-lin's rotated adapter or have one custom made, have your downpipe hacked in the middle and modified for rotated, a few feet of custom IC piping or less if you stick with top mount, then you're good to go. You'll end up spending probably $500-600 more than stock location if you do it right and you'll get way more out of it.

As a reference, my car made peak torque 400rpm later than a dom 1.5 with a front mount, but made 60awtq and nearly 70awhp more. Same dyno, same tuner. A proper rotated 30r setup will spool damn near a 1.5 and make waayyyy more power. Plus it's way easier to work on and you have a lot more headroom. If I get bored I can send my turbo out to FP and get an HTA upgrade for $700, make another 70hp. If you get tired of a 1.5 you need a whole new turbo.

this^^

 

[H00LiG4N]

I'm making 400 whp with a 2.5xtr 10cm on pump 93, @ 21 psi, no knock (mustang dyno, base 230whp) tuner says E85 will hit 450.
I'm going for a re-tune in a week or 2 with a couple of new parts to try to improve spool and low end torque.

 

[H00LiG4N]

double post....

 

[BRaskin82]

As you've all said before the #s can vary, but THAT ^ is basically what I'm looking for!

I'm making 400 whp with a 2.5xtr 10cm on pump 93, @ 21 psi, no knock (mustang dyno, base 230whp) tuner says E85 will hit 450.
I'm going for a re-tune in a week or 2 with a couple of new parts to try to improve spool and low end torque.
Image Link

 

[BJJMark95]

The 2.5 and 1.5 are essentially the same turbo. The 1.5 was developed after the fact with a re designed turbo wheel to allow for quicker spool. Power could be the same.

 

[Toivonen]

Get the Killer B header to go with your 1.5 XT-R. The spool is amazing. I've driven ULH STi's with the Dom 1.5 and they felt lazy off boost and a bit peaky. Then one can drive the Killer B header plus dom 1.5 and while the spool to max boost does take measurably longer, the transient boost response is what it's all about. So just a bit of throttle feels like you have a massively powerful engine just surging and floating your car effortlessly forward. You look down and see you are only getting out of vacuum and into boost, 95% of the power is still yet to come!

Numbers vary but just 21.5psi can get you 380whp on a very conservative Mustang dyno known as a "heartbreaker". On pump gas you can't get much more than 25psi without boost tapering and the Dom 1.5 getting out of its efficiency range but if every psi is give or take 10whp do the math and you're over 400whp without running crazy amounts of boost. But it's not the whp, it's the area under the curve and transient boost response that makes this dynamic duo so much fun.

Dom 3 gives you more top end, but how much power do you really need? If I could only have one, I'd rather have the stock VF on a Killer B header at 300-310whp than a Dom 1.5 that pushes 380ish whp but with the stock ULH, slow boost response and a lazy off boost personality.

Then again are you in time to back off and just buy a 2nd hand GT-R?

 

[uschearak]

Get the Killer B header to go with your 1.5 XT-R. The spool is amazing. I've driven ULH STi's with the Dom 1.5 and they felt lazy off boost and a bit peaky. Then one can drive the Killer B header plus dom 1.5 and while the spool to max boost does take measurably longer, the transient boost response is what it's all about. So just a bit of throttle feels like you have a massively powerful engine just surging and floating your car effortlessly forward. You look down and see you are only getting out of vacuum and into boost, 95% of the power is still yet to come!

Numbers vary but just 21.5psi can get you 380whp on a very conservative Mustang dyno known as a "heartbreaker". On pump gas you can't get much more than 25psi without boost tapering and the Dom 1.5 getting out of its efficiency range but if every psi is give or take 10whp do the math and you're over 400whp without running crazy amounts of boost. But it's not the whp, it's the area under the curve and transient boost response that makes this dynamic duo so much fun.

Dom 3 gives you more top end, but how much power do you really need? If I could only have one, I'd rather have the stock VF on a Killer B header at 300-310whp than a Dom 1.5 that pushes 380ish whp but with the stock ULH, slow boost response and a lazy off boost personality.

Then again are you in time to back off and just buy a 2nd hand GT-R?

please post mustang dyno results!

 

[BRaskin82]

So..I went with the 3.0 xtr with the 10 cm and 3"inlet. Got tuned today and the car made 383whp & 356tq on 93oct @ 21psi

With the different corrections I saw Hp #s from the 383hp to 395hp (sae) & 405 Overall I'm super pleased though!

Tune looks super safe and feels strong as F@€k! I will say that is a little laggy. .but I just got a learn to drive her. The car feels amazing on the highway and seems like it just keeps getting faster & faster. It's way more of a gradual power band than the quick thrust and then falling on its face like the stock turbo provided.

I'll try and post the dyno sheet as soon as I can.